affairs, on detente, dealing with the apollo program, he comes off as quite wise and shrewd. so you're spot on. >> he would never talk like that with bill clinton, reagan even. >> bill safire once described negatives as a layer cake, eight, nine layers there is the realist, the conservative person, the progressive, but also a loner, a realist overseas, a hater at some level, and also really good poker player. so he was a much, much more complicated piece of work than your average president, and most of them are complicated. >> a good part of nixon was just spooky. >> that's what he says. at some point he had been such a striver and a scraper at the beginning. >> the world of french, for example. the chinese love this guy. the french love him. it is strange, you know, douglas. we look at him in a particular way, he is ours. anyway, thank you. happy birthday, dick, wherever you are. and richard nixon. i'm not a nixon hater. it's much more complicated. thank you, gentlemen. thank you, douglas.